Rob Stott: All right, we are back on the Connected Design Podcast. It is not the first time we have had Phoenix Marketing Group on the Connected Design platform. Chris Gilray participated in the first roundtable we ever hosted for Connected Design, and now we have Mr. Bret Jacob, senior business development manager for Phoenix, a gentleman I feel like needs no introduction to this channel. Bret, I appreciate you taking the time and wanting to do a podcast with us.
Bret Jacob: I am excited. Thank you, Rob, for inviting me. It is good to be here.
Rob Stott: For those who may or may not know you, can you tell us a little bit about your background, your path through the channel, and how you landed at Phoenix?
Bret Jacob: I am a newish member of Phoenix Marketing Group. I joined the team a little over six months ago, but I have been in this industry for decades. I started in retail audio, then worked for an integrator in the Seattle market. I also do not want to neglect to say that I was in the military for seven years, and I was involved in this industry even then. I was in the Army band as a performer, but I was also a sound technician and a recording engineer while working my way through the University of Colorado Denver recording arts school. I have never really stepped away from this, even when I was in the military.
Bret Jacob: When I got out of the military, I landed with a great commercial integration firm out of Seattle. We were exposed to so many large, impressive projects, and I was very fortunate to be involved in some of the most iconic buildings in the Pacific Northwest, from the Space Needle to the Bill Gates residence and a lot of other really cool projects.
Bret Jacob: Then I started my own integration company and had a lot of success there. I had an opportunity I really wanted to jump at, which was to go work for one of my favorite manufacturers, ELAN. It required a move from the Northwest to the Northeast, but I was so intrigued. I had always wanted to work for a manufacturer after so many years in the field. It worked out pretty well for me. I left the company in the hands of my partners, made that move, and stayed with the same organization, basically surviving five mergers and acquisitions over a 23-year period, until I did not.
Bret Jacob: I completed an 18-month non-compete and had been looking for a home. Chris Gilray and I had always hit it off personally, and we started talking. His vision was, how do we get upstream of the integrator? So many times the integrator is brought in too late for really great designs to come to fruition. They are always having to do what they can with the limited time and resources they have. That is something I had been working on for nine years previously in my last job as director and vice president of business development at Nortek and Nice, so it worked out well. Now I am here and really enjoying it.
Rob Stott: That is a well-rounded background. I have to imagine the experience on the integration side, and then obviously a lot of time on the manufacturer side, plays into what you are doing today. I would also be remiss if I did not say thank you for your service. How important is that well-rounded experience in the role you are in now?
Bret Jacob: Having been an integrator has always served me well because I feel their pain every day, especially when it comes to working with builders, architects, and designers. Integrators know they could have done a better job if they had just been brought in a little bit earlier. That is usually the problem, and it requires education and advocacy. That is right up my alley. I had a lot of success with that in my previous stop, and I plan on implementing a lot more solutions to move that forward in the industry. Also, as chair of the NAHB Custom Builder Technology Group, that group is tasked with the same thing: helping and empowering custom builders to implement technology solutions more easily into their projects.
Rob Stott: I am glad you mentioned that, because it is something I want to dive into as well. I know it has only been six months at Phoenix, but even since the last time we talked, which was only a couple of weeks ago, a lot has been going on. You have been busy. For those who are not aware of what you are doing right now, talk about your role at Phoenix.
Bret Jacob: I pretty much think I have the best job in the company here at Phoenix. I always kind of do when I am in a business development role because I dig it. I also get to lead our internal design team. This new group is called Phoenix Design Build Services, or PDBS. We are a very empowered team: myself, Sean Stevenson, Mark Skazanski, and another team member coming soon. We are building something that we believe has the capability to change our industry and the way builders, architects, and designers think about and work with integrators.
Bret Jacob: We are doing that every day in the field. I am going to be working with Mark next week in the Philadelphia and New Jersey market, calling on integrators and design-build professionals. On top of all that work, we are building a demand generation platform that will be a resource and destination for the design-build community. It will be a place for them to come for support and inspiration, and ultimately for a connection to an integrator in their market who we believe is best positioned to deliver for them.
Bret Jacob: Of course, that means deploying solutions that include audio, motorized shades, lighting, acoustics, and so forth. We are creating some very cool sales and marketing assets that served me well in my previous role, and we are deploying them into integrator-builder and integrator-designer relationships. Some of these things are simple, but effective and cost-effective, such as co-branded brochures that help a builder or designer open the door with potential clients to the technology solutions they are offering through the integrator.
Bret Jacob: We also have the ability to add a technology solutions section to a builder’s or designer’s website. So many builders never even mention technology in their marketing or on their websites, so that is a really cool tool to help them take ownership of the category. We are always encouraging them to take ownership. They do not have to know everything; they just need to know the right questions to ask.
Bret Jacob: We are also doing case studies at a national level. I can deploy a photographer to any job site in the country to take still photography or video that we can use to help tell the story about the process. With these case studies, or project spotlights, the focus is a little bit about the integrator, a little bit about the manufacturer, and even a little bit about Phoenix. But primarily, it is about the design-build professional who took the initiative and said, yes, we are going to do this. We want to elevate them. We want their peers to get a little FOMO and be inspired by others who are taking that step.
Bret Jacob: There are other innovative ways we can help builders and designers take ownership of our category, including immersive 3D tours and interactive design center displays.
Rob Stott: It is cool to hear all of those things packaged up that way. You are bringing awareness to the design-build channel about what is possible from a technology standpoint, which is something we see at CEDIA and throughout the industry. Connected Design has made an effort to bring awareness around what technology integrators and custom integrators do and how they can work better with designers, architects, and builders. This feels like real steps and initiatives that are closing the gap between the design-build community and the integrator community.
Bret Jacob: That is certainly the goal. Part of it is that anybody can generate a lead. Any of our manufacturers can go out and generate leads and market directly to builders, architects, and designers. Where we have that extra sauce is our regional sales managers across the country. They have intimate relationships with integrators and know who is best positioned, who can perform, and what their strengths are. Some integrators are better at certain aspects of projects than others, and we can steer the builder, architect, or designer, register the project, and keep it going all the way through while keeping our design team involved throughout the process.
Rob Stott: I have to imagine that in your conversations with the design-build community, you are learning a lot about the questions or concerns they have when it comes to technology and the impact on the experience they are trying to create. Are there common concerns or themes you are hearing?
Bret Jacob: That opens up a big can of worms. I attended the NAHB Spring Leadership Week in Washington, D.C., and enjoyed every second of that trip. I had about 20 conversations with custom builders in a very condensed period of time, and it hit me all of a sudden that there is a range.
Bret Jacob: On one end, there is the builder who says, yes, I use my electrician, and I call in one of those low-voltage guys if the electrician cannot get it right. On the other end is someone like Greg Hardwick with Hardwick Construction out of Orlando, who says, I do not do anything without my integrator. The minute I get architectural plans, my integrator is in the meeting. When we meet with the client, the integrator is involved in every aspect.
Bret Jacob: If that is a one and a seven, or a one and a ten, that gap and all the variables that go along with it are what we need to address. That includes the approach, how you monetize it, how you advertise it, and how offering technology solutions helps differentiate you in your market. The question I am trying to answer is: what does a builder’s technology profile look like, and how do we help them move up the spectrum? You could apply that same thing to designers as well. There are interior designers who are petrified and do everything else they know how to do, but avoid our category in general.
Rob Stott: For the ones that get it, how are they implementing it? To Greg Hardwick’s point, he is in lockstep with his integrator every step of the way. Why is he able to understand the potential of having an integrator that involved in the project?
Bret Jacob: I think he understands how important it is at the design level. He specifically tells his architects to leave lighting out because his integrator is going to handle that. The lighting design is handled right from the get-go by the integrator. These are luxury homes, and his clients are ultimately going to be living with them. He has seen the best results when he approaches it this way, with the integrator deeply immersed in the project and involved at the design stage. A builder like that understands it is a better product he is delivering.
Rob Stott: It might sound kind of old school, but it goes back to the idea that I am sure the integrator he works with is someone who has developed a strong relationship with him and done great work. That cannot be overlooked.
Bret Jacob: Right, and a great reputation goes along with it.
Rob Stott: That is proof that if you are willing to put in the work and develop those relationships, it matters. On the other end, there are so many builders and designers who need to become more comfortable with it. It is a matter of getting in with them and helping them understand the importance of having technology in their offering, or having a partner they can rely on. That points to why the work you are doing is so important.
Bret Jacob: I think that is really important. A daily element of my job is meeting with integrators who work with Phoenix and our team. Our regional sales managers identify integrators I should speak with, mostly for coaching. An integrator might say, I am in Southern California and have one builder relationship, but I want more. Then we talk about the one they have and what we can do to help cement that relationship. We apply sales and marketing tools and different approaches that help the builder understand why they want to be partnered with that integrator.
Bret Jacob: There are two things I think builders like to hear. Number one is that there is backing beyond the integrator. If there is a manufacturer, or a representative like us, who has their back, builders feel more comfortable. They know the integrator is the key relationship, but there is someone behind them backing the whole thing. Especially when we are adding elements like brochures and website tools to help tell that story, the conversation shifts to what am I doing for you and your business, rather than the builder feeling like the integrator is just trying to get to their clients to sell them more stuff.
Rob Stott: Conversation is a key word there. There is a lot of discussion in the channel about how integrators need to talk to the design-build channel, and vice versa, and how those languages need to align. In the conversations you are having today, is there anything you can provide from an educational standpoint about how integrators are talking to the design channel? Are they leading with experience rather than specs?
Bret Jacob: Builders are generally less concerned about the details than designers are. With designers, there is a skill to sitting down with a specifier, pulling out samples, and walking them through why a lighting fixture, a small speaker, or hidden speakers would be a good fit for their projects. Builders tend to care less about those details and more about not screwing up their schedule. They want to know that the infrastructure is correct and the timing is working out well. They require different approaches.
Rob Stott: And no two are alike. Just like no two integrators are the same, the design-build community is not all the same either, especially when you are talking about custom homes and custom interior design. What is important to one will not necessarily be the same thing that is important to another. It goes back to being authentic in those conversations, building rapport, and earning trust.
Bret Jacob: Really. It comes back to: I am here to help you with your business, not just sell you something. You have to build that trust. If you can get a little backing when you go into those meetings, that helps. We are meeting with integrators next week in Philadelphia when I am working with Mark. Some of these are designers who do not have a relationship with an integrator, and we are bringing them in. Some are relationships the integrator already has, and we are there to help strengthen those relationships.
Rob Stott: Not to completely shift, but I know you talked about NAHB. When we spoke, did you mention that the technology working group had been defunct for a period of time? Talk about the history of that and your effort to bring it back, because this is literally you getting in the room with builders and making sure technology is represented in that community.
Bret Jacob: I served on the NAHB Custom Builder Technology Working Group at least 12 years ago. It was quite a while ago, and it was led by Rick Johnson at the time. It was a robust, fantastic group. I do not know if Rick came up with the structure, but it was equally represented by integrators, custom builders, and manufacturers or industry people. We probably had six to eight from each group, which created a really great dynamic.
Bret Jacob: When I got into this new role at Phoenix, I said I needed an industry voice and an independent voice. The first thing I thought was to see about joining that group again. When I reached out to NAHB, they told me the group had been disbanded, shut down, or dissolved for about two years. I was blown away. Of all times, when builders and designers, especially home builders, are so desperate for information.
Bret Jacob: I was invited to attend IBS and show up at the custom builder council meeting to advocate for the resurrection of this group. I agreed to do that. I was already in Florida, actually on vacation in Key West, and it kind of blindsided me. I drove from Key West to Orlando to give a 10-minute speech about why I believed it was important for this group to be reinstated. At the time, I thought I was just advocating for it. But after I finished my passionate request, the chair, Wes Carroll, said, all in favor? Approved. Well, we need a chair. I nominate Bret Jacob. I had no say.
Rob Stott: Careful what you wish for.
Bret Jacob: They saw me coming, let’s say. But honestly, it is exactly where I want to be because NAHB gives me an independent voice. Everything else I do has a commercial interest attached to it. That is just the reality of this business. But this working group is brand agnostic, and that credibility is something you cannot buy.
Rob Stott: For those who may not be familiar with it, having a presence within NAHB, the National Association of Home Builders, is pretty important in terms of the conversations we have been talking about. Dive into what that group does. What are the conversations like, and what is the mission of that group within the broader NAHB scope?
Bret Jacob: Our task is to help and empower custom builders to implement technology solutions into their projects. That is very narrow and broad at the same time, because where do you start? If you account for that spectrum, a builder needs to understand where they are before they can make a change. We are implementing a survey that a custom builder can take in five minutes. It gives them awareness about whether they should have an integrator relationship, or even what an integrator is if they are at that first level. They do not necessarily need to get all the way to where Greg Hardwick’s integrator relationship is, but if they are at a one, they need to get to a four or five.
Bret Jacob: A lot of this is dollars and cents. A lot of it is about delivering a better product and taking a different approach. It is a little disturbing that some custom builders focus on everything else. They want to talk about the quality of the build and the family legacy, and all of those things are important, but they completely ignore this category and do their clients a disservice by not bringing the integrator in earlier on the project. That is what we are tasked with addressing. The audience is NAHB members, particularly custom builders, and we are building content. I think we have something coming out this fall that is going to be pretty impactful, including that survey.
Rob Stott: If integrators listening take anything out of what you just described, it is that you are bringing a voice for the channel into an organization at the heart of everything we talk about in terms of getting in front of the design-build community. You are advocating on behalf of integrators and the importance of technology earlier in the home-building process.
Bret Jacob: That is our mission. I always remind our team in every monthly meeting that the builder is our North Star. Even though the builder does not know what he should know, we have to teach him what questions to ask. They do not need to know how a network comes together or all the technical details, but they do need to know what questions to ask. If they know those questions and are comfortable asking them, that opens the door for integration.
Rob Stott: We can see it, especially if you were in Orlando and got to walk the floor. There is some technology present. Brands that people in the CI channel and the CEDIA channel would recognize, like Legrand, Savant, and Sonos, were on the floor. The awareness and attention feel like they are growing within that channel. But there is still room for much more presence and a greater conversation between integrator and builder, and it feels like your working group is making steps in that direction.
Bret Jacob: That is the idea. Ultimately it comes down to either not calling an integrator at all or calling the integrator too late. By the time the electrician has roughed in and the walls are closing, you have already lost. The decisions that matter, like equipment room location, conduit runs, lighting design, and motorized shade pockets, have to happen at the architectural drawing phase or immediately after. The best builders I have met treat their technology integrator like they treat their architect: day one, every meeting.
Rob Stott: I know it has only been six months, but to see the progress and the things you have created for Phoenix, and what you have done with NAHB already, it seems like you have had a pretty fruitful first half of the year there.
Bret Jacob: I appreciate that. It is a labor of love, and I am very passionate about it. I am thrilled to be here at Phoenix. Chris’s vision is empowering me to bring it to life. We have a lot of work to do in the second half of the year to launch this platform, but I cannot wait to see it up and running. The fun part right now is building it out. How do we want an outdoor lighting category to come across to a builder, architect, or designer? That alone can be a day-long whiteboarding session. These are fun sessions to have, and I have a great team behind me.
Rob Stott: It seems like we should be following up again not too far into the future, because there are going to be more updates to be had. The exciting thing to me is that as you build these things out and they get used in front of more designers and builders, you are going to learn so much about how they use the tools, what adjusts, and things like that. It is a really cool opportunity ahead of you, and selfishly, for me too, to learn about it from you. I look forward to hearing what is coming down the pike. It is an awesome story for this channel and for the broader home-building and design community.
Bret Jacob: We appreciate it. When you see an opportunity, the opportunity is usually a gap. There is a gap, and it is a gaping gap that has to be addressed. We are not going to be the only ones addressing it. There are people doing it every single day. The people in my NAHB Technology Working Group are doing the exact same thing every day in their local markets or wherever they are. We are all heading toward the same thing: we have to empower these builders. We need to help them.
Rob Stott: Fantastic. Bret, I appreciate you taking the time and diving into this. Like I said, we are definitely going to do it again. We will not schedule it here as we are recording a podcast, but we will let people know they should look forward to hearing more from you in the not-so-distant future.
Bret Jacob: Rob, I just want to say I appreciate so much what you are doing. It is so great to see Connected Design alive again. We are huge fans of yours at Phoenix. Everybody is rooting for you, and we are happy to help in any way we can. We would love to participate any time you are ready.
Rob Stott: Awesome, man. Appreciate it. Talk soon.
